DIY loft conversion ++ cost, trials, tribulations and triumphs

Finally finishing off the Landing Ceiling

2011-09-06T21:33:00.004+01:00

It has been a few years now and it's about time I finally finished the last few bits. The last major job was to take down the old, damages lathe and plaster ceiling on the landing. So I can fit the sun tunnel and fire alarm on to new plasterboard.

It's quite a quick job to rip down but the clearing up and cleaning up after wards is a huge task.

The rest of it should be a bit cleaner.

Other Extreme DIY - after the Loft Conversion

2009-10-22T17:40:00.004+01:00

Another project just being born, after a long pregnancy.
I'm now going to be covering what I'm up to at http://www.idostuff.co.uk/ and a blog at www.iDoStuff.co.uk/blogs . At this stage it's not not fully formed but I can't stop the delivery now. "Nurse, the forceps quick!"

Why I've not finished the loft conversion yet!

2009-09-15T15:12:00.006+01:00

It's a problem I have, biting off a bit more than I can chew. Starting a new project before I've finished the last. Since January I've been masticating this house....

... and turning it into this

It was bargin at auction but has needed a lot of work, I'll detail what I've done elsewhere. Anyway it's about done now, the first viewing has resulted in a tenant so I can move on.

On the big TO DO LIST. finish off the loft conversion, landing ceiling, sun tunnel, smoke alarm staining and varnishing and finally get the Building Control sign off. Plus the Sliding Sash windows, plus earning some money, plus everything else I've been neglecting.

Nearly finished the Loft joinery

2009-01-02T16:55:00.009Z

Well I missed the Christmas dealine to finish the loft conversion but I put in some hours between Christmas and New Year.

The Landing Banister and and one streach of hand rail up the the stairs is fitted and looking good. I've finally unwrapped the newel turning just so I can stand back and admire the handiwork.

I've got a run of 7 spindles and handrail to go, hopefully this weekend. It's a tricky one as I've got to cut the handrail with a compound angle at both ends.

The other bit I wanted to finish was the shelves to create our pompus sounding library. The uprights I had finished a while back are made from one of the old pulins I took out. All the rest is new timber I've had aclimatisin for ages. As always it took longler than I expected. This was due to walls and purlin not being perfectly square. Each shelf is individually shaped so it all lines up.

So with a lot of sanding then finshing it will be complete. However this will have to wait as we've bought another project house to do up that will keep me busy for a few months.

A little progress on the loft conversion

2008-12-12T10:22:00.006Z

The spindles should be delivered this weekend and now I can see the finish in sight. I've started making the shelves for the landing area. However time is running short, with another house to do up due in January, finishing the Loft stairs etc. is going to have to go on hold. I'm determined to get the bulk of it done before Christmas...

These Christmas deadlines keep cropping up.

Sprial Stair for Loft Spindle turning price

2008-11-27T13:09:00.005Z

I've ordered the 25 spindles in hemlock. Total price inc. delivery and Vat £195.
Not much dearer than the local chap but it leaves me with 25 planed up blanks in redwood sitting doing nothing. Oh well, I live and learn.

Let me know If you want details of my supplier that can get the turning done on a copy lathe.

Alternative spindle turning for spiral stairs

2008-11-25T15:24:00.005Z

I went to see the chap about the spindle turning. I think he's not so keen on doing 25, however he's put me on to local stairparts place who can now send a spindle out to someone with a copy lathe. I should get price for these tomorrow for doing in hemlock and for using the blanks I've already got.

Come On

2008-11-19T12:08:00.004Z

Today I am going to vist the man about turning. There, I've said it so now I've set a deadline and it will happen.

Also, I've just found a photo of the side of the stairs with the panneling on.

Motivation is what I need !

Note to get off my arse.

2008-10-14T18:40:00.002+01:00

I need to go and see the man about turning the spindles. He can be getting on with these as I'm working on the windows. It's always a stumbling block for me, when I have to use others help.

Now there's a thought the spindle turning will cost me about £150. If I could get hold of a second hand wood lathe...hmm

Tandem projects sprial stairs & Sash windows

2008-10-07T13:36:00.004+01:00

Progress on finish the stairs has come to a halt. I'm waiting for my man with lathe to recover from an ankle injury so he can turn the spindles for me. The timber is prepared and ready to go but he's not rung me yet.

In the mean time, the first of the Box sliding sash windows is taking shape. I'm recording progress on this in extreme detail so I can follow my blog and make another 7.

If anyone is interested have a look at http://slidingsash.blogspot.com/

Loft Landing Area - the forgotten zone

2008-09-29T12:18:00.010+01:00

The Loft Landing area is going to be last bit to finish. It will be a really interesting space when its done. The space under the purlin is a large cupboard area. The doors I've fitted are recycled from Wendy's mums old kitchen. After about five years down our cellar (I knew they would come in handy for something) they needed some drying out and some tightening up.

The pile of wood in the picture is acclimatising, it has been for months now and will be for a few months more. It will eventually make book shelves that form the rest of the cupboard front and round on to the party wall. We'll then be able to pretentiously call the landing area, our library.

It looks like the new windows are going to come first, but when in gets cold in the garage I might make a start.

Loft spiral Stairs -Date carving for Posterity

2008-09-29T12:04:00.006+01:00

Just above the door under the Stairs I needed to have a panel to cover an unusable bit space. Rather than a plain bit of timber, I thought it was good place to have reminder of the build. Who knows, future generations may might find it interesting.

So with my surname "Bell" and the year, I spent a few hours on a design, another hour or so practicing then I carved this.

I used a Bosche electric chisel. It's very satisfying to use and produces a good clean cut. It took about 1 1/2 hours to cut. I'd be concerned about hand-arm vibration if I was to use it for extended periods.

Sprial stairs with cupboard underneath

2008-09-29T11:53:00.005+01:00

Having got rid of the airing cupboard, we've missed having somewhere to but the laundry basket and that bit of extra storage. The space under the stairs I've used by build a side to staircase, and now I've fitted the door.The door is traditional construction with wedged mortice and tennon joints. The pannels are fitted into rebates and mouldings applied to the outside face. It's worked out very nicely and it look like I'll be making a new front door sometime in futue.

I've yet to fit the cupboard out with some shelves but it's already filling up with spare bedding etc.

Total DIY loft conversion costing so far

2008-09-26T11:32:00.003+01:00

I've posted a link to this blog on a forum www.ebuild.co.uk/forums/messages/774/12685.html?1222424910 . a few people interested in the costing so:

Fairly accurate costing for DIY 16m2 loft conversion room with 4m2 landing area

Not counting the complete new roof in slate with breathable membrane done by a contractor, cost including supply and fitting of steels and installation of velux £6000 plus vat. I’ve included the material cost of steels and velux.

4 velux, 3 off 1140 x 1180, 1 being escape spec, 1 off 780 x 980 - £1188
Rockwool Flexi to bring fire resistance of lathe and plaster ceilings up to spec - £322
Chicken wire to support above - £80
Celcon blocks, sand cement for fire wall to neighbours -£191
Steels UB’s 230x90x32kg/m PFC 1off 4900mm 1 off 4000mm - £150 est.
Joist hangers - £47
Timber for structural and stud walls - £265
Radiator and various hardware - £298
Chipboard flooring P5 grade plus some PSE - £157
Kingspan for roof and ashlar - £348
Kingspan drylining K17 for brick walls - £305
More assorted hardware - £162
Electric, cable and high spec fittings - £180 est
Timber for stairs - £450 est
Plaster board - £129
Skirting and architrave - £99
Skim Plaster, bead and plasterer for 2 days - £165
Assorted other bits and bobs - £120 est
1/2hr fire door and frame - £122
Flooring Oak veneered laminate, underlay, edging -£332
Estimate of others, eg. smoke alarms, paint, lost receipts - £300

Structural engineers calcs - £264
Building control submission - £130
Building control inspection - £283
Electric certification - £80
(all work under supervision of electrician (father in-law)

If I’ve missed anything obvious let me know.

Total cost - £6167

Paneling on the side of the spiral staircase

2008-09-15T19:02:00.006+01:00

The paneling hides all the ply wood I used and is designed to match as much as possible the existing stairs.
I've been working on this stage for a while now. It took me ages to finally order the timber, I order all I needed for shelves that are going in the landing area and for the sliding sash windows I'll be making next. I cut the timber to approximate size and left it stacked up on the landing for a couple months to season and acclimatise.
Hopefully nothing will shrink and show up. I've allowed for movement of the wide boards and the panels.

One part that did stump me for a while was how to make the panels thin enough. I ended up sawing by hand 250mm wide boards and finished them with a belt sander. It would have been easier if my thicknesser took more than 200mm. With some time end effort they came out OK at about 6mm and flat enough on the visible side.

If I'd had worked out how much moulding I needed to finish of the paneling I would have invested in a bit for the router. At around £7 for 2.4m from Wickes its extortionate.

The Loft Conversion Finished Room

2008-09-11T10:28:00.003+01:00

With a set of stairs to the DIY loft conversion now in all I needed was the final decorating and the Half Hour fire door fitting.

Fitting the door was is just like a normal door but with three hinges, and I've done plenty of those in the past. The only problem was cutting a corner off to match the ceiling slope. It is a solid timber core door but the cut went through the hardwood edging. I routed out about about 15mm and set in a new piece. The brush seal that came with the frame didn't fit the slot so I had to open it out. On this door I used a real "Pergo" hidden closer, which I must say is much better quality than the other versions I've used in the rest of the house. You cant hear the chain as it pulled back into the barrel.

Some picture of the finished room a few days before Emma moved in, it's never been tidy since.

The deep window ledge allows the window to be positioned far enough down the roof to meet building regulations for the fire escape (The loft conversions regulations have changes since). The bottom of the window opening being 1.8m from the edge of the roof.

Next part of spiral stair construction

2008-09-10T17:31:00.002+01:00

Fitting the centre post was simple. I first fitted an off cut of the 100 x 100mm timber into the floor with half joints in to three joists to spread the load. The notches in the joists are only 700mm from the wall and the joints are tight so I wasn't worried about weakening the floor. The bottom of the centre column is bolted on to it. The column at the attic floor level is mortice and tenoned to the end of a floor joist I had left sticking out.

I wish I could find the pictures I had taken at this stage, but thats the down side of digital pictures. I think the camera was borrowed and the card wiped before I'd transferred them.

The next pictures should give an idea of the construction methods used. I screwed stringers on to each of the two walls, after some final measuring. Then made the the side/stringer that goes over the existing stairs. This fits on to the other vertical post I put up. Followed by the last two bits of stringer. All of the stringer are flat, no recess or grooves to take the risers or treads. All these I cut from 18mm Birch Ply, its good to cut with a smooth edge, no voids and should finish well for painting.

The risers and treads are cut from the same ply, 3 off 8x4 sheet in total. The risers needed cutting at an angle to meet the stringers and the inside ends fitted in the slots of the column. On the wall stringers I shaped brackets out of ply and screwd and glued them on to suit. The other risers are screwed and glued directly on the outer stringers.

The steps are individually cut to fit. Almost every one tricky to mark out because of the number of angles. But seeing it go up one step at time kept me going and I eventually got to the top.

If any one wants to know more about how I built these, please leave a comment. It took me ages to figure out the construction method to suit my skills, a minimum of tools and materials availability.

Spiral stair central column - a once in a lifetime experiance

2008-08-15T20:00:00.002+01:00

This was one of those challanges I like to prove I can do, but am glad I only have to do once.

The design calls for a central timber that the stairs can fix on to. BUT I wanted it to look good and so did Wendy. Therfore:

Thirteen slots to take the risers need to be cut in the square post 100 x 100mm at exactly the right angle. After much designing I made a jig to take my router, by unbolting and moving the matal slider frame round the pre-drilled holes I could get the right angles. The carrier for the router fitted both ways in the frame and was sized so that turning it through 180 degrees gave me the right width of slot. The frame was sized to give the length of slot with screws in the router carrier for fine adjustment.

It worked a treat.

Next I wanted an Acorn on the top to match the existing newels. None are available off the shelf so how to make one? and do really want to just stick one on the top.

NO make a 14 foot long lathe

By using a router to do the cutting I don't need to spin the timber fast. So one pivot on the garage door and another on the Workmate, a jig for the router and I'm all tooled up. Almost

Spining by hand is a little tricky while guiding the router so I made it into a foot operated pole lathe, with a motorbike inner tube as the return and tensioner a piece of rope and a bit wood for the treadle.

I was enjoying it so much I carried on and turned the complete newel.

Stairs - not the easiest design and harder construction

2008-08-15T19:36:00.002+01:00

I set of spiral stairs has bee a fantasy of mine since childhood. So spiral stairs up to the loft conversionis was always on the cards. But bought ones would look naff in our house. The design brief was starting to come together.

Sprial Staircase, matching the existing stairs and meeting building regs.

This is first visual sketch after many elevations etc. prior to the final designs and full research into Building regs and a trip to library to consult the British Standards.

The regs and standard basically say its OK if you can get down it withou falling over and if you do fall, you dont fall far (and gives minimum measurements) and its not going to colapse. Ask if your intrested in more details.

The plan consits of a Sprial stair or you could call it four kite winders. Two sides having banisters and spindle matching the existing stairs. Two sides with streachers against the existing walls one side over the existing stairs panneled to match in timber. This gives us a cupboard space underneath to keep the wash basket etc.

The proper plans drawn up where aproved no problem.

Now to the building to the build of the staircase so it coinsides with the room being finished in time for christmas.

Electrics and negotions with Central Networks for a PME

2008-08-15T19:03:00.003+01:00

This is a saga I'll condense, it could be useful for anyone else in the same position. I did loads of internet searching and found it crops up quite a bit. On this occasion I won and got the result I wanted.

The electrics for the loft have to be certified for the Building regs approval. The testing includes an Earth continuty reading at the consumer board - a ZE reading, this was too high to pass. Our system is a TNS, this relies on an earth supplied by the supply company. Ours had an earth strap bonded to the outer sheath of the incoming mains cable.
Two ways to rectify this
1. Fit a earth spike and have an RCB - not always reliable as the quality of the earth depends on the moisture content of the ground.
2. Fit a PME that uses the Neutral supply as Earth - The supply company has to fit this and wanted to charge £75.

Me not happy, my Electrician believed its the responsiblity of the supplier, and 17th edition regs backs his opinion.

Lots of negative/ blocking tactis from central networks lead me to get a case started with Energywatch. I then got escalated to specialist customer services team and my own very nice but not technically minded young lady to talk to.

After many calls and two visist from engineers I was still getting nowhere. The engineers just tested the supply and said its fine and I could apply for a PME to be fitted. I eventually got a goodwill gesture of a half price PME.

No Deal. I started getting tchnical again and explained they changed the wiring in road years back and fitted the rest of the street with PME, they missed us out and had left us with a potentially dngerous supply for the last 20 years. "Before privatization, thats not our responsibility" yeah that line didn't last long. I then got to talk to an engineering manager who understood the problem'ish.
He visted, had a look and without admitting liablity, fitted a PME in about twenty minutes to shut me up and close the case.

So persistance paid off, they could have done it earlier and saved us all alot of time and their expense.

Electrics where plain sailing after that, using a supply cable (from a previous shower instalation) to a two breaker box, one for sockets and one for lights. All works and up to spec.

The Finish Straight loft conversion

2008-08-15T18:06:00.002+01:00

Not a sprint finish more of a fast marathon. As a result I didn't stop to take many photos. The only interesting bits where cladding the the wood between the double window and making the window ledge seat.

And the door to the storage part of the loft.

This is 50mm thick timber planed and edge glued to make a board. I fitted cross pieces on the back with slotted screw holes to acount for movement and keep it straight. It did fit beautifully, but it didn't 3 months latter. The timber has now shrunk across the width by over half an inch. Its still straight but I'll have to add some on at the hindge side so the latck will engage. Oh Well its all a learning curve, and now I've got piles of wood stacked up in the house to aclimatize and fininsh seasoning for the next prodjects.

Skirting Board, achitraves, door fitting, painting, varnishing and fitting flooring - all easy stuff but time consuming. Being a loft conversions there's a lot of angles.

Loft Electrics would have been simple - next post.

And some stairs and the room was habitable

Getting Plastered - Plastering the loft conversion

2008-08-15T17:47:00.003+01:00

This is where I cheated. I now how long it takes me to plaster, so I asked around and found a local chap who would charge me £60 per day and take 2 days to do it. His other plus point was he could fit me in within two weeks.

To get that price I had to fit all the corner edge beading and buy all the materials. No problems.

For my loft conversion it took : 5 bags of Finish plaster , three rolls of sticky backed skim, many cups of tea and two days on the job. He did a great job for the price, so for a change I was happy with a trades man.

Plaster Boarding the Loft Conversion

2008-08-15T17:24:00.003+01:00

I've not been abducted, I am still trying to finish this attic off, I have been doing bits - but slowly and I've not been keeping this blog up to date. In my defence I've started other projects and keeping busy.

So to plaster board. A pallet full delivered of the tail lift by Travis Perkins, in the road and rail, so I had to carry it all in and its heavy. Should be a two man job with the 8' x 4' sheets but I managed without it getting too wet and with little traffic disruption. I did enlist help getting it all up stairs to loft.

Fitting it is fun puzzle as I calculated quite precisely what I needed to have minimum joints. It eventually came together with very little scrap. Its fixed with plaster board screws 70mm on the loft ceiling to go through the insulation to the rafters.

TIP. Don't hold the screw with bare fingers whilst drill driving. Your thumb and forefinger will be full of tiny metal splitters.

Plaster board to the Loft conversion velux windows

Looking more like a room and getting neater all the time

Lots of screws - at about 300mm centres to hopefully avoid any cracks aphearing in the finished plaster . This pic shows the wiring in an labeled

Chance to catch up

2008-03-10T17:26:00.001Z

Now I might have chance to catch up with progress because I've finished the room, got most of the stairs constructed and Emma has moved in. This was another deadline I'd set that I manged to meet (well to within a couple of days).
I'll shortly fill in the details of:
Plaster boarding/skiming
Finishing
Starting Electrics saga
Stair case building

Wiring for loft conversion Reminder

2008-03-10T17:17:00.004Z

Thought it best to record in photos where the wiring in stud wall goes. This was whilst I was plaster boarding it all out.

The photo also shows the aluminium foil tape I used to seal all the joints and edges of the insulation.

Finishing the loft conversion Insulation

2008-03-10T16:50:00.003Z

How I insulated my loft conversion-

The next layer of insulation had to be fitted up to the battons on the rafters. This final 35mm layer of Kingspan TP10 over the top of the 75mm TP10 brings the total roof insulation up to 110mm . These were easy to fix up using long clout nails but again some very careful cutting required to get a good fit.

I also had to insulate the party and gable end walls. For this I used Kingspan Kooltherm Dry Lining board K17. This has 60mm of insulation with 12.5mm plaster board bonded to it. Heavy and awkward to get up there and cut being 8 x 4 sheets but it was relatively fast progress. I dab fixed in place with normal board adhesive

Showing the Insulated wallboard fitted aroung the chimney breast with a bit of skirty foam filling the gaps.

Finishing Loft conversion stud walls and starting insulation

2008-02-21T16:16:00.003Z

First part of Loft Conversion Insulation

A few photos here showing what was the start of lengthy process fitting the ridgid Kingspan insulation between the roof rafters and the stud wall. Every piece individually cut to fit.

By this time I'd finished the majority of the floor so stand was easy and safe.

This pic showing the the tricky bit of stud work to for the escape window cill. This had to project back over the steel to give the minimum distance from the eves to the window opening required by the regs.

Here we can see the little access corridor to the rest of the attic space taking shape. Included here though as it shows the insulation around the Steel.

Plenty of rockwool insulation went in behind the structural studs, just cheap wickes stuff this time as no additional fire proofing was required. So the total depth of ceiling insulation is about 400mm.

I had to fit battons on the rafters to ensure the air gap of 25mm to the breater mebrane was maintained , so i didn't push it too far up. Surprisingly it was cheaper to buy PSE timber from Wickes and rip it down with my bench saw than it was to buy rough sawn direct from a timber yard. Fitting it was a doddle after I made a jig to getting the spacing and I purchased a cheap electric brad nailer, well worth it.

Another batton then had to go on the under side of the rafters to give something solid for the next layer of Kingspan to attached to.

Here are just some on the trick angle to be cut. They need to be tight to keep the insulation up to spec. Only a few bits needed a squirt of foam filler.

TIP Use a jig saw with a long blade to cut them, far easier than a knife and less messy than a hand saw.

Loft Conversion Wiring, plumbing and the first floor board

2008-01-22T23:06:00.002Z

A bit of a cheat counting the first floor board at this stage as I had to fit the wiring and plumbing under the floor first. But it was up there giving me a more stable platform to work off.

The Loft wiring was a simple ring for the sockets the lighting to go in walls later. Just because it would be neater in the long run and it seemed oportune I also wired TV coax to go the 1st floor bedrooms, down into the lounge and into the cellar.

The timeline drifts a bit here but I wasn't taking many photos. I must have done the plumbing for the radiator around this time. This came off the 15mm feed and return under the floor in the girls room (shifting stuff round in their bit to get at the floor is a job in it's self). From there it goes up the lathe and plaster stud wall, only one noggin so I only had to cut a small square out at the bottom of the wall and one in the middle .

It comes up about 300m from the radiator down pipes, so that plan came together quite nicely. After a wet test I took the rad back off. Just realised I must have built the stud wall by this time.

and so I had

Also by that time I'd taken down the airing cupboard, another couple of days covered soot and dust, not just me but the house and its contents.
With it out, the landing really opened up.

The flooring came up the stairs and the ladder then got laid. A bit of a no brain job putting it down apart from the tricky bits round the edge. I used, I think 14 sheets of 2 x 8 x 18mm Wickes best T and G chipboard. 300 screws latter ( I dont want a squeaky floor) it was down and giving me a more relaxing stance to start on the rest of the dividing wall and the insulation.

The wiring down to the cellar fuse board went up the underneath of the stairs wiggled across the landing and up the old stud wall along from where the plumbing went in. Conviently emerging close to where a fuse board for the attic has been fitted. Whilst the opportunity was there I also put in two telephone cables, the coax (I might use for DAB as I've lost radio 4 in the dinning room), and the cable for the downstairs smoke alarm.

Loft Conversion - Building control structural inspection

2008-01-22T22:43:00.002Z

A moment of truth..... had I completed all the structural work on the steels, joists and purlin replacements to the required standards?

Of course I had, with total confidence I rang building control for an inspection, no problem with the next day service. However the inspector I was expecting had move areas so a the new chap wasn't familiar with the project and effort I'd put into the planning. Still no nerves, I was confident.

The very nice man came halfway up the ladder, had a look round and was impressed. What a good excuse for a beer that evening.
A few days latter the bill for the inspections came through, Unavoidable beurocratic expense. ho hum.

Loft Progress upto Jan 08

2008-01-22T22:18:00.001Z

I've final got round to adding a bit more. I had set a deadline of Christmas to finish the room off ( building wise anyway). A pat on the back for myself because I did it. There's nothing like a deadline to get a job done.

Just the Stairs to make the room habitable and a few bits and bobs like electrics connecting and certifying, a door, decorating, flooring and blinds for the velux. Not take me two mins.

I had a couple of weeks off to tile the dining room fireplace and instal a log burning stove in time for christmas.

It's full steam ahead on the stairs with the center post machined and installed.

The next posts cover what ive been upto.

I'll catch up on the following

2007-10-09T23:48:00.000+01:00

Sun tunnel fitted, I did finish the one in the bath room but not taken pictures yet. All ish the floor joists in, rock wool down, Stud wall frame -crazy angles. Insulation ordered. Screwfix order arriving tommorow so crack on with first fix electrics.

Which reminds me, I rewired all the upstairs lights so the cables aren't going under the new floor.

The start of some serious household disruption

2007-10-09T23:26:00.002+01:00

The Loft conversion makes it's grand entrance in to the rest of the house.

Breaking through, Now everyone can see what I'm upto

Top of the old airing cupboard

Trimmed ceiling joists and wall hanger

The timber work for the staircase opening is simple, two 200 x 50 screwed together one end resting on the inner wall the other on the a joist hanger on the steel beam. The other side of the opening rests on a masonry joist hanger in to the party wall. A 9" angle grinder with diamond blade cut just deep enough to get this in without having to take a brick out. This also trims the ceiling joist, screwed timber to timber reiforced with angle brackets.

Then came the fun part, knocking the rest of the ceiling down. It only took about 20mins but the clearing up after took 3 hours and I should have given Wendy some advanced warning. I've also noticed it's getting colder of an evening now and there's no insulation.

Welding Loft Joist Hangers to the beams

2007-10-09T23:07:00.002+01:00

This is a loft conversion question that seems to asked alot. How to hang the joists off Steels, (rsj's). Well this way is probably unique.

The normal way is to fix timber to beams first. But I've got a welder!

Joist hangers Welded on beam

This was a job I wanted to make sure the building inspector wasn't going to grumble about. I had spec these to welded on the draws that were passed but I'd changed the design from the original being on a standard UB.

So make them twice as strong. I first welded two hangers together, plug welding through all the nail holes. Then drilled 3 12mm holes in each leg. Then the tricky task of getting the levels right, the lazer level came in handy with a slight adjustment for the slope of the not so acurate Victorian ceiling heights. I had to get the new floor joist as close to the old ceiling as I could allowing about 5mm minimum for deflection. With that sorted the it went well after intially trying stick welding for the extra power and giving up because the power blew away the hangers. The MIG did the job nicely, plug welding through the big holes with good penertration into the beam .

So Hangers On time for some more timber.

Sun tunnel hole -velux

2007-10-09T22:45:00.003+01:00

Sun tunnel hole looking down

sun tunnel hole looking up

With the rest of the loft conversion moving along slowly but steadily, I want a job I could quickly see the results. I also wanted to finish the floor in the storage area so the first sun tunnel had to fitted. First I reinforced the ceiling, it being old plaster it would have crumbled away when I touched it with the jigsaw. Half an inch of plaster with the wire mesh in the middle did the trick. I couldn't avoid having to trim the ceiling joist as the tube would not fit inbetween and I wanted to position it exactly over the sink.

Tradesmen, to gripe or not?

2007-09-03T16:49:00.000+01:00

I don't know if I've got a good deal from the roofers.
They finish the roof barring pointing up to the slates on one of the gables, they where going to quote for the pointing both gable ends. However they left site leaving some scafolding in the front garden.
The breather mebrane is holed in some places and badly fixed also full of slate chippings in parts.
The woodwork around veluxs is shody (certainly not up to my standard and not like the pictures in the fitting instructions)
The wooden gutting at the front of the house and now fallen off, and plastic guttering round the back has a chunck out.
On the plus side, I've not had any leaks and I've still got a £1000 retainer. I think I'll just wait to see if they want there scaffold tower and money before I make my mind up to gripe.

Back to it

2007-09-03T16:21:00.000+01:00

After a short period with no progress I'm back on the job. But first to update on my reminders.

The bike sailed through its MOT after replacing the rear wheel bearings.

I manged to fix Emma's laptop it was blown power board, I couldn't belive how many screws held it together so I didn't but them all back in.

We sorted the new property out in time for the tenants moving in. It was hard work for a few weeks but well worth it as the tenants could be stopping there for a many years.

We completed on another whilst we were on holiday, this needs little more than a clean and tidy up. The first prospective tenant to see it has snapped it up so no worries on that score.

Tax return sorted and sent, outside toilet fixed, our shared trailer rebuilt (another action packed party excuse, need to set a date for the painting party) and the end of the school holidays.

Which now brings me back to the loft conversion.

Roof on in time for the floods

2007-07-03T10:49:00.001+01:00

Luckily the roofers manged to finish and get everything water tight before the sky fell in.
The last part was to fit the ridges. To comply with the Regs we needed a continuous vented ridge. This is to allow vapour that can form between the slates and insulation to escape without rooting the slats and rafters. I had originally thought we end up with a modern ridge but after seeing how the system works I realised we could recycle the old ridge.
The system comprises of corogated strip that sits under the ridges and on the slates, lifting them up a little and allowing the ventilation. The ridges are screwed down on to the ridge board using clamps and a strip between them to stop water coming in. A simple system that works well with modern ridges. The ridges we have are 'roll top' which is like a tube along the top. The clamps had too be modified to fit in to the tube and longer stainless steel screws sourced. The ridge board had to packed up with slats giving enough wood for the screws. These were too high on the first ridge and so had to re-done.
The result is a ridge that look right, apart from the gap slight gap between them. Some morta or a thick bead of silicon could sort this.
A slight set back to this job was when the roofers foot came through on the neighbours side of the ridge. He survived the the accident but not the embarassment, the others made sure of that. It was quickly fixed, so no harm done.

More Reminders

2007-06-22T21:41:00.000+01:00

Sold Chalet, New house workload, Laptop fix. Mot Bike

I was itching for something to get my teeth into a few weeks back and ended up building a tardis. Now there seems like a million and one jobs come at once. Oh Well busy, busy, it'll all be done in a month or three. I'll have to have some more hours in the day.
But it's my birthday on Sunday so some beer and friends and family followed by two days proper paid for work and back into it Wednesday. When I'll get chance to put some more on here I don't know.

Reminder to self

2007-06-20T21:09:00.000+01:00

roof nearly finshed, ridges recycling, redo first ridge, ceiling colapse, elephant on roof and inevitable consequences, first stuctural timber and beams, wewiring, chimney bought, stone mulioned windows spotted. Another house to work on.

Loft conversion Fire Separation Wall - Stage One

2007-06-20T20:46:00.002+01:00

This was a hot and sweaty job but satisfying because the progress is rapid and visable. Carrying the blocks up from the garden is a job I've been spreading out. Taking a couple up everytime I'm passing that way, not carrying anything else, and if I remember. Iv'e shifted about 100 so far so only anther 50 to go. It was a hot weekend when I built this first bit to the offshot and it gets hot up there however the sweat dripping into the mortar kept it workable. Carrying the full buckets of mortar up is bit arm streaching but using the large blocks 450 x 230 x 75mm means I didn't have too many to lug up.

Nothing special about the wall. However I did put cardboard down on the neigbours side, as promised, to break the fall of any blocks I might have dropped and to catch mortar droppings. I'll remove these from the neighbours side when required.

The blocks are lightweight (not so light when soaking wet) aerated concrete, they are easily cut with a saw. I used a bow saw, the blade is no good for wood now but is still cutting the blocks.

Between the blocks and slates I've packed rockwool flexi slab, this I believe is up to spec.

Velux Windows for loft conversion

2007-06-20T17:46:00.001+01:00

The twin velux, yes I know the picture is on its side, so use your imagination or turn your head. The Purlin across the middle will be going after I've built the supporting wall off the steel. The best price I found for Velux products was from Travis Perkins (dont bother with the website though, I found it infuriating more than informative, the staff at the local branch where helpful and keen).

All 4 Velux are now in. There are three big ones, one of which is is the "means of escape" MOE. this one had to be no more than 1.7m from the eave to allow the escapee to reach the top of a ladder (building regs). The one above it is fitted as close as possible with a "duo flashing kit" the height of this top one is matched with the third large velux on the other side of the roof. Again I'm sure I would have done a better job of the joinery for these but they look solid enough. I will have to adjust some of the timber to make sure everything is looking as square as can be, before plaster boarding. The fitting of the membrane around these also leaves a lot to desired, the persistent rain has has highlighted the deficiencies.

The last velux goes over the landing to the stairs. Originally this was fitted a couple of inches out. It had to be moved or I wouldn't have been able to open the window after I've built the rest of the fire separation wall and fitted the insulation.

Having the windows in give a feel of what the room will eventually become. It also gives a fantastic view of the thunder storms coming in before I had to run round with the buckets again.

Loft conversion - Steels, UB not, PFC actually , RSJ's lifted and installed

2007-06-14T22:17:00.002+01:00

Steel beams for the loft conversion

the big steel

shorter steel also showing the two wooden purlins

End view showing the section

Well what a relief when these where in, with no damage and no slip ups.

I would have photographed them going up but the technique was so far from a recognised safe method I don't think I would have been thanked for it.

They gave me a price and did the job and I'm not complaining. I did offer plan B but plan A worked. I'll not describe the method in detail for fear of it sounding like a recommendation but it involved a flatbed truck, a wobbly scaffold tower, the proper scaffolding, two ladders and some planks. Not forgetting some coordinated grunting and some extra strong tea before and after.

Once up there positioning, levels and bricking was easy.

The Steels are resting on class A engineering bricks with slate packers. A compromise was made to the squareness of the room to try and keep the Ashlar (I think that's the right word) or knee walls looking OK. It's no good try to get everything straight and square in these houses because it will always look wrong.

I had asked for extra care with the steel on to the party wall, and got it, so no problems there.

The steel beams where specified by a structural engineer- 230 x 90 x 32kg/m PFC one off clear span 4.9m and the other 3.8m The loading on it will be the floor and the roof via a structural stud wall, the top purlin will be coming out.

Sun Tunnels

2007-06-14T22:00:00.001+01:00

A what? Is the normal response. Sun tunnels are like a small roof light from the outside but on the inside a reflective tunnel is fitted to take the light down through the ceiling below.

As I've had to fit closers to all the doors to the escape route (for building regulations) the landing is dark all day. the other one is going into the bathroom which has never had a window.

I'll show progress on these as it happens and take some pictures to show the difference it makes. I do hope it will be worth it.

Rain Stops Play and Starts Coming In

2007-06-14T21:54:00.000+01:00

Its been chucking it down all day and last night. A few leaks which doesn't surprise me, the breather membrane is ripped in parts and not accurately fitted on some of the tricky parts. I've used a much higher quality variety in the past on my garage roof that was virtually unripable and would have happily paid a bit more for some similar. I would have fitted it myself with much more care and attention but hayho, I'm paying for tradesmen.
Various receptacles have dealt with most (roofer says he'll patch these later from the inside) . Although they weren't on the job today due to weather I had to call them out to sort out one bit. The membrane on part was straight in to the guttering at one point and was pooling, unfortunately at this point there was a hole. The water dripped on to inside of eaves, down the cavity and out around the window frame below. I think it should dry out OK with no damage done. The Roofer came out and sorted it so finger crossed.
I should also mention the point of ingress, the membrane does let water seep through where it is over the rafters. This isn't a problem where the slates are up to the apex even though the ridge isn't on yet but where there are no tiles it does build up and run down and drip randomly.

With more rain due tonight and tomorrow I'm really hoping nothing deteriorates.

A Week With Progress

2007-06-14T21:16:00.000+01:00

So much for me keeping up to date with this. Now I've got to remember whats happened over the last 8 days.

In brief , What the roofers have done - the Sun tunnels went in OK , the steels went in OK whoopee, the 3 large velux OKish and lots more slating completed

What I've done - more wire meshing drudge, more cleaning up drudge, Fire wall to off-shot built almost fun with visable progress.

I'll detail later with pics.

Pictures clean up and ceiling fire proofing

2007-06-05T12:57:00.001+01:00

Cleaning up between the rafters with dust pan and brush to start with. Really good dust mask required.

25mm chicken wire fitted, a labourious job that tends to fray my fingers. I used an electric stapler to hold it in place. Cheapest supplier I found for the chicken wire was : www.meshdirect.co.uk I ordered 3 rolls 900mm wide by 25m for £70.50

I built a storage platform 100mm above the rafters, giving room for a bit more insulation. Somewhere to keep that stuff that we can'nt bear to chuck, someday it when we might have 'Cash in the Attic". You can also see the recycled insulation at the back giving us a total of about 450mm. I'm slowly bringing up the lightweight concrete blocks up to build the fire separation wall on the left.
Rockwool Flexislab after delivery filling the garage. Sourced from www.buildingmaterialsdirect.com again best price I found and helpful salesperson. 18 packs of 100 x 400 £322.75 inc vat.

Main roof space, again wire mesh and Rockwool Flexi Slab down to the eaves. Also showing the ceiling cross member refitted back from where the UB is going the vertical supports are bolted to to the roof rafters giving additional strengthening to the old storage floor.

The stage we're at June 2007

2007-06-05T11:23:00.000+01:00

It's all systems go at the moment. The roofers are here, all the old slates stripped off, re felted with breathable membrane, slatted and sun tunnels going in. The Velux windows are piled up in the hall waiting to be fitted and the steel UB's (RSJs in old money) should be arriving today. The roofers have been as good as expected so far although they have miss calculated the openings for the velux and will have to correct this to get the means of escape low enough to comply with the regs.
I asked the roofing company to install the UB's as the longest is 5.2m and weighs 160kg, they recon they can do it and so they've got the job. I have worked out way I can do it from the inside as a plan B. I'm apprehensive about this part of the works, getting it up there, man handling into position, and fitting in to the party wall, there plenty of scope for things to go wrong. I'll be glad when they are in.
Prior to the roofer starting I've been cleaning up the 50mm of accumulated dust and debris from between the ceiling rafters. This job is a nightmare, the dust is 75% black soot I get hot and sweaty, down at the eaves I've got 18" of space to work in so its a long, uncomfortable, slog. I've also never had so many showers in a week. One thing that make this a little easier is the vacuum machine I invented a while back. I could explain this in another post, but for now I'll just mention that that Dysons do loose suction power especially when they blow up so Im now running on Kirby power which is working well.
After the cleaning up and shifting of 15 rubble sacks of dust, oh and all the old unrecyclable insulation, I've been fitting chicken wire over the the ceiling rafters and the latte and plaster ceiling. This is a requirement of building regs to hold up the Rockwool flexi slabs that have to be put down to get the half hour fire resistance. I've done this on the offshot part of the roof and up the eaves on the rest of the roof. I need to get the wire meshing as far as where the UB's are going to be tonight.
The pictures I'm going to post will show this in more detail.

Loft Conversion -Some History and why we are doing it

2007-06-04T17:22:00.002+01:00

We bought the house, an 1880's semi twelve years ago and came up with a 15 year plan for everything we wanted to do. The loft conversion was has always featured but was always going to be way down the list. The house started as 3 bedroom but with our 3rd child on the way I split one room up and but the bathroom in half of it. When child number 4 came along the two eldest girls had to share. So now we have two teenage daughters sharing. Workable but not ideal. They are good most of the time but WW3 breaks out when something goes missing or gets borrowed, or the responsibility for the festering pile of clothes/shoes is in dispute.
The original plan was for me to use the attic room as an office/studio/guest room therefore freeing up the downstairs study to be used as second living room. I did fantasize about being able to set a stereo up in a proper listening room but I've given up hope of that when the plan didn't get royal assent. I've recently set up a decent system in the garage, but that's another story.
So the mine and the mouses plan is to let the eldest have the attic room until they leave the nest. Fingers crossed the eldest will fly to university in a couple years and the youngest in about 12.
Yes I know, we wont need the extra room in a couple of years so whats the point?

I said I would/could do it, so I will.
The appeal of an attic room is too much for me resist. Resistance is not an option against the combined forces of a wife and four children.
We need a new roof anyway so why not put the velux in at the same time and "it'll not take two minutes" to do the rest.
When we married nearly two years ago we asked for contributions to our spiral stair fund as wedding presents.

So this project had passed the point of no return a while back.

In the begining

2007-06-04T13:45:00.000+01:00

I've finally taken the plunge and started a blog. The basic idea is to record the progress of our loft conversion and hopefully provide a resource for others who might consider doing the same. Its been many years in the planning and research stage and now work is underway.
I have limited funds so just getting someone in to do it all isn't an option, I'm also the kind of person who likes a challange and will try anything once. I'd descibe myself as an advanced DIYer, who likes to get things right and usually does.

I'll back track in a later posts to fill in what has already happened and how we've got to this point.

As this is me first ever blog I'll have to see how thing work and set myself some ground rules.
1. Rambling on is OK
2. Grammar and spelling is not a concern, my dyslexia isn't going to put me off
2.5 Structure is of little importance
3. Side tracks are desirable
4. Any rules are my rules and can be changed at will

So first post complete I'll see how long it takes to get some more done.